1861 January 14 Meeting on Immigration

Title

1861 January 14 Meeting on Immigration

Type

Minutes

Date (allowed formats: yyyy, yyyy/mm, yyyy/mm/dd)

1861/01/14

Creator

George D. Watt

extracted text

President Brigham Young's
New School House
Jan 14th 1861 6 1/2 P. M.

In complience with a previous apointment the the Legeslators of the Territory of Utah, and Bishops of the City of Great Salt Lake met to consider the best means of importing goods from the East, and emagrating the Latter day Saints that are willing to leave the so called United States.
Of the first Presidency Brigham Young and Heber C Kimball were present Of the Twelve, John Taylor, Ezra T. Benson Lorenzo Snow, and Wilford
Woodruff
Singing "Come all ye sons of Zion "etc
Pray by Elder John Taylor.
Pres. Brigham Young said.
Bishop Hunter has called this meeting by my request; that those who do not live in the City may distribute the information they get here among the bishops in their different localities.
Many of our Legeslators are associated with the bishops and some <many> of them are bishops. We think we can get our ideas before the bishops and people abroad in this way better than we can by sending them in any other form.
Our trial last season of sending teams to the States proved entirely successful. They started from here on the 27th day of April, and arrived at the Missouri on the first day of July. They did not get out of the Can-yons until about the first of May. <They staid at the Rier about <nearly> one month; and> They left for home on the 23d of July which made their stay there 23 days. The Order and disign was not to stay in Florence only long enough to load up, but they had to wait for the arrival of the freight. They arrived home again on the 3d of october. The teams were in far better condition than teems
are generally that have only crossed the plains once.
Next season we wish to start a large train, or three or four of them, to go back to the Missouri River and bring home <back> the poor of our people. And to bring, also, goods, machinery, and anything that should be brought. Thirty teams and wagons went back last season, but we disign the ensueing season to send back two hundered.
We want to have a correct understanding with the bishops with regard to what is expected of them. Last year some did not seem to understand upon what terms they were engaged. They had an idea they would be allowed on tithing for their trip and have the priviledge of loading up goods at the Missouri and get their pay for freighting to this place too. We wish this to be a correctly understood buisness transaction, which if faithfully fullfiled will accommodate alike the poor and the rich --<which> will accommodate the mass of the people.
I will now lay before you the manner of doing this buisness in a simple form, that you can tell it to your bishops understandingly.
For instance, in Sandpete five or six ox teams can be supplied, and <with> wagons. Then in Manti I call for five teams, with four yoke of oxen to each team and waggons, that is capable of bringing over the plains thirty five hundered pounds to each Waggon; and then if they can send three, four, or five extra yoks of cattle for these waggons do so.
Now what shall we do with these teams? We want them to go down to Missouri River, and load up with such loading, as they are dictated to bring, and then come home. But says the Bishop, "we realy did think of going down for a few goods for our own use." And we are not only willing but ancious you should send and get some goods, but we do not want you to put into those five waggons the first twenty five pounds. You can send three, four, five, ten, or twenty five waggons more as the case may be, and pick up among the people, ten, fifty, five hundered or a thousand dollars each person sending what they can, put this money in the hands of a good honest agent, and load up these waggs with goods for <the> your settlement, but the five waggons remember is to be used for another purpose.
You say you have not waggons sutable for the trip. Well Mr. B and Mr. C. do you not want to buy a Waggon? "Yes. and I have the money to pay for it". Well we are going to send to the Missouri River, and we will have the new waggons brought from Chicangd, which will only cost you ninty dollars, or a hundered, and it will cost you nothing to bring them here. If you want a cheaper waggon you can get one for fifty dollars. You can buy your black wallnut plank, and put on your (here Here a noise in the house, creating an echo took from me the remainder of this sentanse. Rep.)
And you have a hundered dollar waggon. But those five teems must be reserved for the Church alone. Manti says we have no money, no, not money enough to pay your taxes. You have squandered away to your enemies the last dime who would cut your throats if they had the power. But you have got a multitude of fine young cattle, perhapes one hundered yoks or too. Put the yoke upon <them> twenty yokes of them and send them down to sell <at the> in the Missouri Ohio, Nebraska or any where else. I have written to the <east> agents of the companies of emagrants that are coming on, <not only by the Emagrating funds> this season, Nathaniel V. Jones and Jacob Gates, who have left England by this time, and <I have> advised them not to buy cattle as we are going to send down a quantity of cattle to sell, and we will warrant our cattle better than those they buy there.
They have perhapes twenty five thousand dollars in their hands. I shall get advises from them long before the train starts down, and I shall have an oppertunity of sending by the express informing them how many yoke of cattle we are going to send down. I have taken this plan knowing there is an advantage in it. We have not money here now, but we will take our cattle there and sell them for money. But supposeing Jones has got his stock, and the brethren are coming on all supplied, and we have one hundered yoke of Cattle there we cannot sell. In that case we can put them in charge of trusty herdsmen and send agents down to St Louis and get their value in goods, and I have my cattle in security until they are dilivered at the proper place; or we can herd them on the perary make beef of them, and turn them into mony. If bro. Jones holds on with regard to buying his cattle we are sure of from ten to thirty thousand dollars on the stock we send down this year. I can see how a profitable buisness can be made of this matter I have laid before you. I know all about being disapointed, but I can see very clearly how this people can gather to themselves mines of Wealth, if they will do it. If the Lord wishes to disapoint us in this he is wellcome to do so and we will accknowledge his hand.
I wish bro. Hunter to make drafts on the bishops for so many cattle and waggons. The waggons can be furnished here, or the money, to buy them there, and money to buy goods to load them, and them lugg them home with their own teems. I am altogether in favor of bringing our Goods from the east ourselves, instead of buying them here of these merchants. We have not given them these last two years our twenty and fifty thousand dollars per year. Now bishops see if you can find brethren to work with us to carry out this plan. We had the people stay a while in the States to have them apostatise there if they would, but they still hang on until they come here, and then they will very likely apostatise, I want them here to have them apostatise if they will, and get rid of them as fast as I can.
Bishop <E> Hunter Bishop William G. Young of Grantsvile, and Bishop Edwin Wooley spok in terms of high commendation of the plan proposed by President Young.
President Brigham Young then said, It is for the bishops to look out proper teamsters for the trip.
Bro. Woolly has spoken about the sucess of the trip last season. I think in the year /47 Seventy three waggons left the Missouri River, old winter quarters for this valley, and camped on this ground, and returned again, and lost none of our animals except two naggs. I had one horse hung. The Brethren wanted to know how firm they should tie their horses, I said tie them so that the devil dont get them, so I had one horse hung with tight tieing. After we arived in the valley that season our ox teams <teams> hauled wood for the space of twenty days, for while we staid we was to work building houses, and riping, and tareing, and fussing. The horse teams started back six days after the oxen, but we could not overtake those oxen to save us. The ox teams went home as quick as the horse teams, and much better. When we got to looking glass creek the brethren left an ox, and we <backed> picked it up as we went along; when <as> we were so nigh home several more were left which the Omahaws got, two of them were left on the other side of the horn; otherwise we did not lose an ox that summer, nor a cow, nor a horse. One horse was shot. We broke our own roades part of the way. From Larimi to Briger we had a track, and from Briger to this valley we had to break the road; and we had a time of it.
I will take good smart oxen and perform a journey from here to the Missouri and back again with ease and I would as leif have them as any horses and mules that ever walked on four legs. I have always said it and say it now. But the brethren have not beleived it. Last year we had four young men whose duty it was to gaurd the cattle. If we could have such men as they were to go another year and gaurd the cattle, and take them to the feed instead of leaving them to hunt it it would do very much towards the perfect success of the undertaking. It is true they might have had some Cottenwood Men in the train last season but they were much better than
some men that we had with us, for they thought of nothing but to sit down and let others do the work. The oxen will do the work we require, and will do it in good season, if we have men to take proper care of them in herding and driveing. As soon as the snow is off the ground we have feed in these mountians. When we started the pioneers, before we could get a bite of feed it was the 23d of May. Two thirds of the way to Larrimi our animals lived upon Cotten wood bark, and brows: Just as soon as the snow is off we have the early and the late feed -the new and the old We get to the perairy feed when it is in bloom when we go down and on our return we leave Larrimi about the time frost bites it, and makes it good for nothing; then we come to the good nutrieous mountian feed. As for this undertaking proveing successful is out of the question; if we go to with our mights we can accomplish that which will do us great <temperal> good as a people.
I do not know that there is any church property <there> at the river; there may be some little machinery; We want to bring on the people. As to waggons, I callculate to send the same waggons I sent last year.
Bro. Joseph W. Young, Did they give out? (Joseph W. Young "No.") Did you have to set a single tire ("NO") I can send them ten years, and you will not have to set a tire; <and> There were waggons sent that I will venture to say will weigh four hundered pounds hevier than mine, and will not biggin to bring the load that mine will. After <he> Joseph W. Young had loaded on thirty one hundered, he put in a man and his wife, their bedding, clothing, and provisions. making in all about thirty three, or thirty four hundred. My two horse waggons brought that in. We do not wish waggons to be sent on the trip that will not bear their own weight, weighing forteen or fifteen hundered weight with a three inch, or three and a half inch axeltree at the <box> shoulder, My big waggons are four inches at the shoulder. We want the best of waggons. I will give way for the brethren to talk.
Joseph W. Young Said. That cattle well broke five and six years of age are the best for this work, as they do their work without fretting and extra labor. That unshod cattle are mueh better than to shoe them with heavy shoes before they start and when they need shoeing, he recommended an thin light shoe, well formed to be tacked on with light nails; and in the event of only one claw requiring to be shod the variation of the highth of the two claws would not be so great as in the case of useing a shoe from a quarter to half an inch thick. Recomended strong waggons and prefered the Chicago waggon to any other make.
President Heber. C. Kimball spoke very encouragingly of the scheme, and felt highly gratified that a way was open to use his Cattle, to benifit himself and the people, and save them being stole.
Pres. Brigham Young I wish to say one thing regarding myself, and you. You are Legeslatures of this Territory by the Authority of the Government in which we live.
Eight of the thirteen years we have been here I have served as Governor. When I received my commission from President Poke, the first time I saw the Saints together afterwards in a general meeting, I told them there and then that I would not give the Millionth part of a hairs breadth of my Preisthood to yeild it subject to my <preisthood> commission, but I would make my commission subservient to my preisthood, and do honor to it or I would not have the commission. I am right there yet. And you in your legislative capacity and in every capicity you occupy on the face of this earth, if you do not make everything subservient to the preisthood God has bestowed upon you you will be found unworthy of it, and it will be taken from you, and given to another. So I am not talking, you know, to men of renown and ability, and great authority, and <to men of> consequence because of this governmental authority for it is nothing compared with the preisthood of God that has been bestowed upon you. Statesmen, kings, emporers, judges, Governors, presidents and potentates, all sink into insignificance in the eyes of every person who understands the preisthood of God. Do right here in your legeslative capacity, but all the time have your eye single to the glory and advancement of the kingdom of God upon the earth. Do you ask if I dare publish this sentiment? Yes I would as leif publish it as not to the universe for all nations to hear it. It is the proudest thing I could perform and there is nothing else pertains to my Mission and being on the earth that will compare to honering the preisthood of God, and building up the kingdom of righteousness among men, and honering the God that has given me my being, and <the> power <he has bestowed upon me> to bring me back to his presence. And let the earth and all the powers of the earth become subservient to that preisthood, and be a servant to it. That is what makes you and I proud. There is nothing else to be proud of, for that is the only thing that will endure. Every son and daughter of Adam that takes the oposite course will come to a final end, return to their native element-- to the small, <end to us mortals imperceptable> particals that compose the elements of creation to <and> be ready to be organised again. Let us honor our God and his preisthood, and pay attention to the gathering of the saints. Bro. Hunter spoke of being under a covenant, <to do this>, which was made in the temple at Nauvoo that we would not cease our operations until we gathered the Saints. I have not ceased one day in trying to fill that vow. We want to send our proc-
lamation six weeks ahead of the teams and want it taligraphed to all the
states, and south, of North America, and inform every latterdaysaint that our teams are on hand to bear them to the gathering place, invite them to come up to Florence and we will bring them home as far as we have strength, and when they are provided for in shape of team then we will bring what we have to bring.
There is another item. I want these my brethren the legeslators; (I expect this matter has been mentioned to them, I understand they have taken votes in each branch of the legeslature that they would pay their tithing). Bro. Woolly is one of the Members and I apoint him to receive it. I do not wish you to talk any more about it but I want your tithing from every member and officer of the legeslature. Bro. Woolly will hand it to me and I will spend it where it belongs, and that is to gather the poor, pay debts, and support the preisthood. I do not want it, I have lots of mony, and going to have more. I am your servant. My carriages and horses have been at your service dureing the Session; I am willing to serve you, but I will have that which is my due, when I can get it. I want you to remember that your legeslative buisness sinks into insignificanse when you think of your preisthood . You are here to streighten out straws, and I would not give the ashes of a Rye straw for all you do or have done this year and last year, yet these baubles answer a purpose for the present, so we say go ahead. A man that understands the true principles of Government could give more law in one day than all the legeslative bodies of earth could give in the course of their life times. To have righteous law givers is the blood, the escense of all law; to have every officer in the government filled with the spirit and power of the Holy Ghost; they will execute the law in righteousness, and judge a righteous judgement. When you bigin to make specifications in the law you tie every man hand and foot. This is the difficulty with our Government at this time, they have tied themselves hand and foot with their own acts and doings. And those that would save the Government, men that are honest, and filled with wisdom we might say, comparitively speaking, men that have understanding in this nation; they cannot touch the lines of the team, they are out of their reach, they are in the hind end of the carriage, and are obliged to sit and see gamblers, cut throats, and blacklegs drive the team of state, and it is rushing <fast to> headlong on the presipice of distruction, <and> while they have no power to put forth an hand to stay its reckless progress, but they have to see the poor miserable curses that hold the reins run away with the whole to distruction, and there is nobody can <can> pluck the reins of Gvnt. from their hands. They have ruined themselves. The conbustables for distruction was in the fabric from the first. The seeds of distruction was hid in the Centre of the very nuclous of the Government, they have germinated, burst the frail shell, and are developing fruit in the shape of war, anarchy famine <and> bloodshed, and wide spread desolation. It is not so in the kingdom of God. The righteous are placed to execute, and they have power. The Lord says you are my servant, you are my law giver, and executer, and you are my constitution, Now go ahead and do right. We can then have justice we cannot before. We will be prepared for it when we can hold the reins of government.
They cannot toutch us, for we are beyond the power of Satan now, if we did but know it, and live for it. We are out of their reach; they cannot bind us again. Let us act now solely and wholy for the benifit of this community, for the latterdaysaints. I want you to pass a bill placeing ten percent upon imported goods and then put these Gentile Merchants into the vice. Then we can raise our cotten, our flax, and our wool, and do something with it, and our sugar cane, and everything else we need, and do something with it. But says one we can bring it from the states cheaper than we can manufacture it: Yes, we give them our mony, and our power, and let them play the devil with us. I want to see that thing before the Legeslative closes. You say the governor will not sign it. If you get his mind dirrected right so as to see the opression and imposition this people have suffered he would say dam them I wish you would make them pay fifty percent. He has a better heart in him than many suppose. If he dont sign it, you show your good will at any rate. If there are any who are oposed to this plann of importation I wish you would state your objections.
Bishop Cunningham There has nothing been said about remuneration for the use of the teams. This will be about the first thing that will be asked by the people.
President B. Young If you recollect, last year we got those teams to go on labor tithing. <and> The wards furnished flour and bacon etc, and found a teamsters to four Yoke of Cattle, and a waggon on labor tithing, which virtually goes into the perpetual emagrating fund, but we do not get anything from it. I do not supose we have gathered one Cent to a thousand dollars in mony that we have paid out; may be we have gathered a dollar, and maybe ten, I do not know exactly but it is almost impossable to get anything back. We take this method as it is easy on the whole of us. We are all belonging to the perpetual fund, we all belong to the church, and to this great work that is going on in our day, but we want to make it as easy as we can for all of us. We <as> wish the brethren to take their pay on labor tithing. The flour they need can go on flour tithing, meat on meat tithing, and butter on butter tithing, and if they want tea and Coffee etc. that will go on mony tithing, and the labor of the man and cattle on labor tithing.
Joseph W. Young Will it be the same whether they bring the poor or freight?
Pres. B. Young I do not know that it makes any difference. But they can please themselves which way they are paid, when they have it credited up. If they choose to have it on their tithing, we will place it on their labor tithing, if they wish to make it as donation to the emagrating fund, they can have it so. Now would they not rather have it on their labor tithing than mak a gift of it to the fund? I do not care whether it goes on property tithing or on Gold and silver tithing, we do not care one groat about that, our object is to gather the people together, and esstablish the kingdom of God, we do not care how it works, but we want to keep the buisness portion of it streight so as to know where we are. Last season our trip was a trial trip. I sent out ten Waggons myself, and brother, and a few others sent out some We brought up this heavy machinery some twenty three tons of the paper mill, with some other articals. I brought up a good many goods etc. etc. Bro. Hunter is a more liberal man than I am, and may alow more per hundred for freight, and I would just as leif men have a liberal credit as not. You may allow six, eight, or ten cents per pound for taking down flour, and fifteen or twenty cents for freight on the home trip. They will have feight both ways, and the trip will pay both ways. We shall print a letter of instructions, with regard to teems and fit out etc. Now we want to know the general feelings of the brethren, does it feel soft to their gizzards or does it grind on them and give them pain? (Voices all ove the house, "Good good" "all wheat")
Bishop William G. Young spoke a few words as to the way he did last season in getting teems and teamsters, and had no difficulty.
Pres. Brigham Young We want each bishop to choose his own men for teamsters, and they will be under the supervision of a Captian, <that and all under the suerision> We will not be responsible for oxen or waggons. Your teamsters must be responsible men.
I want enough to go together in a company that if they meet twenty or thirty cut throats, they can use them up, and feed them to the wolves. In the present state of the country, hundereds and thousands will go and do as they please. They have shit on the government, and are now rubbing it in. We do not callculate to have our brethren imposed upon. Make the teamsters responsible for their teams Let the bishop that sends three or four teems, put them in the charge of one responsible man. Let the bishops manage their own teams, and be responsible for the conduct of their teamsters. When in Camp the president of the camp becomes responsible. As my brother John said a few years ago, about hell being out to noon, if they dont see it down east, I have misst it.
Meeting dismissed by <Elder John>

Pres. Heber C. Kimball
Geo. D. Watt
Reporter

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